Just as the film is being released in the U.S., it's been banned in Russia, ostensibly because Putin sees it as an effort from the West to undermine the Russian way of life. The Death of Stalin showcases the brutality of the Communist regime by highlighting the mindless absurdity of a system that places such a premium on strongman tactics and thought control.
CL spoke with Armando Iannucci about his movie, art, censorship and politics.
Well, you have quite a PR coup here. Just as your film lacerating Russian idiocy during the Soviet era is ready to open, Great Britain's PM Theresa May has thrown the Russians out of the UK because of their poisoning two people on a park bench in Salisbury. So the nefarious Russians are all over the news, and your film features nefarious Russians killing and poisoning their way through life. Plus, Russia has now banned the movie.
Yes, for sure. Theresa May threw them out, won't let British athletes go to the 2018 World Cup in Moscow this summer, and soon enough, the Russians will retaliate and throw out the British diplomats too. And as for that ban, it won't last long. Putin knows that over 60% of Russians have expressed specific interest in seeing this movie. I think it was some low-level bureaucratic pencil-pusher in the Ministry of Culture who got upset over the satire and decided he would show some power and influence and shut it down. The ban won't last. I've already been sent a video of a comrade watching the film on his tablet while standing in front of the Kremlin, so I know it's available there! I applauded his chutzpah, but them immediately turned him in to the authorities for having a pirated copy of the film.
You're Scottish, so how were you so astute about American politics in Veep, the American political satire you created and produced, based on your British sitcom The Thick of It? If you know our American funny bone so well, how would you characterize the differences in approach to humor and in filming in the U.K. and the U.S.?
It wasn't a mystery. To make Veep, I came to D.C., met folks in the Obama White House, asked questions, and people were more than willing to talk, to share their experiences. I was invited into offices. They knew I wasn't making a documentary or expose about vice-presidential politics, but simply a comedy show of people trying to get their job done without losing their heads. They just happen to be politicians. Those real folks in Washington, and in the TV show, are just like the rest of us: hard-working, but also with human flaws. They might just happen to be funnier than the rest of us. But they are human.
You have a politician that once said "All politics are local," and all the folks I worked with conveyed that human, local side. Besides, world politics are pretty much alike wherever you are. There's a blend of ego and ambition too. What we laugh at is really very much alike. But our approaches are different. In American sitcoms, the main characters are very good at what they do. So the humor can come from that. Seinfeld the character is a successful comedian. Larry Sanders played by Gary Shandling is a successful talk show host. Cheers has a successful bar. But in the U.K., our sitcoms are built around the underdog. Fawlty Towers is the worst hotel, the worst staff, the worst guests. Monty Python (and that's why I was so glad to have Michael Palin in our cast) has the most misguided, hopelessly lost characters.
And [there were] some interesting differences too in working with American crews and British crews while filming. Say you need to film in a church so you ask the American crew to set that up, and they'll say sure, no problem. They'll overestimate their capacity and say they'll arrange immediately for five churches, two synagogues and a mosque. In other words, they promise way more than they can deliver. And on the day of filming, they'll have the one church ready, just like I asked. If you ask the British crew to set up a church filming, they'll underestimate their capacity, and initially say, ah that's impossible, bad weather, churches closed to public filming, don't want to intrude and interfere with worship, just not available. But on the day of filming, they'll have the one church ready just like I asked. Americans start out slightly more and Brits start out slightly less, so we meet in the middle. Different approach, same outcome.
How did this whole notion of creating a comedy about Stalin ever come about? Is it possible that humor can go too far? Are there limits? When does comedy cross a line? These were desperate, murderous times. Where's the humor in that?
I had been wanting to make a film about a dictator for some time, [I] figured I would just create a dictator of my own, a composite, if you will, of well-known dictators. But then one day someone gave me these fascinating graphic novels by Fabien Nury and Thierry Robin called The Death of Stalin and The Funeral, and asked me if I wanted to direct it as a movie. How could I not? I found the graphic novel perfect for what I was after. It was mad. Crazy. Frightening. Funny. True. And that's what I wanted to achieve in my film, too. There were serious, horrifying abuses by Stalin and his crew, with enormous consequences of cruelty and barbarism to the Russian people. But I wanted to highlight the absurdity behind the cruelty. You mustn't ever feel there are limits to what an artist can do. Why should it be off-limits to laugh at the idiocy, even while the idiots are slaughtering the innocent? I like the different reactions to the movie. Some like it, some hate it, some think I've gone too far. But you've only gone too far when you make a cheap joke. That's the worst. We stayed respectful of the Russian people and what they had to endure even while we were showing the mindlessness and cruelty of the leaders and their awful attempt to stay in power. Comedy crosses the line when it's badly done, when you go for cheap, lazy laughs.
Well, I think you have achieved that same thing in your movie: mad, crazy, frightening, funny, true. I was reminded of the cross-cutting scenes in the Godfather series (wedding with murder, baptism with murder) and here you crosscut Stalin's funeral with murder. And I was reminded too of Charlie Chaplin and his first talking film The Great Dictator.
Exactly! Godfather is good example of showing both sides of horror, showing it side by side, the beauty of the baptism and wedding right next to viciousness of the Mafia murders. Likewise, Stalin's crew had all these absurd details to make the funeral work while also kidnapping and murdering. And same for Chaplin. He showed Hitler as absurd. Chaplin gave us the first comedy that poked fun of Hitler. Nobody had done that before in film. Chaplin was at the top of his game in that movie, and because it was a talkie, he managed to use voices and sound effects to highlight the comedy. He had everyone using their normal voices, no thick and incomprehensible guttural German, just ordinary voices and that had much more impact. I tried that in Death of Stalin. Everybody was speaking in their usual voice, not thick incomprehensible Russian. Besides, some Russians are from Georgia, some from Ukraine, etc, and there are lots of Russian accents out there, so we just went with the American and British accents as they were. It's much more natural, and thus frightening, than [to] have these fake, gruff grunts and trilled r's and mixed-up w's and v's.
I can't imagine the pitch you used with the Russian bureaucrats when you first made contact about making The Death of Stalin.
I told them the truth, that it was to be a satiric take on Stalin and his cruelty. That I was not making fun of the Russian people — and we were very, very careful to make sure we always treated the Russian people with respect — but was satirizing the politics of Stalin. Though Stalin is still revered in Russia, with huge posters of him throughout the hotel where we were staying, all the Russians who helped us with the film were very supportive of our efforts. They showed us around everywhere, made suggestions for location shots, got us access to historical places that might have been closed otherwise, pointed out the best view overlooking the city. They were in for it. They had no problem with our filming. They knew this wasn't a documentary or expose either, and knew that we were going for black humor to convey the horror of the period. Nobody questioned the filming. Ever. Like I said, this ban won't last. The Ministry of Culture will calm down, probably after the Russian election on March 18. In the meantime, Putin can still come across as a strongman politically, and will probably score some good points for his openness by allowing the movie back in. It's a tactic right out of the 1950s Soviet playbook that we're trying to lacerate.
Does Putin, or Trump for that matter, have a sense of humor?
Both want to appear strong, not weak, so Putin appears shirtless on horseback. We've not seen Trump like that. Yet. But Trump thinks he's a comedian. He thinks he's funny. He tweets like he's a comedian. He sees himself as an entertainer. He hires people around him because of their looks. He even said that Rex Tillerson [the recently fired Secretary of State] got hired because he looked like he came from Central Casting. Even though Trump has surrounded himself by good-looking people, he is himself still the star.
Would you consider this a political comedy? And if so, do you think political comedy matters? Are you hoping to change people by it?
Well, I don't know I would call it a political comedy. I'd call it a historical hysteria, or a hysterical history. In the ideal world, people will laugh while watching the film. And then go home, look close at their world, and see how fragile a democracy can be.
Ben Wiley is a retired professor of film and literature at St. Petersburg College. He also was on staff in the Study Abroad Office at University of South Florida as statewide Director of the Florida Consortium/University of Cambridge (UK) International Summer Schools. His interests are in film, books, theatre, travel, literacy programs, kayaking Florida rivers. Contact him here.
This article appears in Mar 15-22, 2018.
