Ali Shaheed Muhammad, alongside more than a dozen different musicians, spent countless hours holed up at Adrian Younge’s Los Angeles’ Linear Labs, recording the 20-track, hour-long debut from The Midnight Hour. Highlights from the self-titled effort include a complete reimagination of Luther Vandross’ “So Amazing,” plus features from Bilal, Marsha Ambrosius and even Muhammad’s Lucy Pearl bandmate Raphael Saadiq, but the record is best consumed in its entirety.
A deep dive is the only way to get lost in a regal statement that’s a culmination of not just all the influences from Muhammad’s entire career, but the impact that he and Younge have had on each others’ creative processes. Despite the time he’s spent with the album, Muhammad, 48, still lets his mind wander off when the band performs it live. He did the same kind of thing in A Tribe Called Quest when his bandmates — Q-Tip and Phife Dawg — would own the stage, and he does it when Younge changes something up in The Midnight Hour.
“I’m listening to him like, ‘Oh, shoot, you’re doing that? Word, let me just change my rhythm,’" Muhammad told CL.
“I’ll listen to the string players and the horn players, and for a moment I forget I’m playing bass. I’m just listening to them, wishing that I could just turn around and watch them because what’s unfolding is so beautiful to me.”
Beautiful is about right, but The Midnight Hour is intellectual and time-traveling, too. Somewhere in its core, the album brushes up with remnants of a time when jazz musicians were asked to perform and entertain in venues where they wouldn’t be able to get a table at as a patron. Muhammad described that freedom as the kind where being onstage is the only place to be truly free to let it all out.
“We come from all that, and we want to embody that in our music and in our mission, and in delivering that on a recording or in the live setting,” he said, adding that he could sense the conversation taking turn towards overly in-depth.
“There’s a lot of layers to it, but more than that we just want people to just have fun and enjoy it,” he said. “Just let your hair down and let yourself be gone in what you’re hearing and what you’re seeing in the moment onstage.”
Which is exactly what Muhammad will be doing when the band plays Orpheum on December 28. Read our full Q&A with Muhammad — as well as a chat with Younge — below.
The Midnight Hour feat. Ali Shaheed Muhammad w/Kendra Morris, Fri. Dec. 28, 8:30 p.m. $20-$38. Orpheum, 1915 E, 7th Ave., Ybor City. theorpheum.com.
Hey Ali, how are you?
I'm good. How are you?
Great. I've been watching the "Artform" piece you guys did with Fender, so I am in a thoughtful mood.
Cool, cool. You a musician?
I pretty much played every valved brass instrument from middle school to high school, but then I dropped off, or my lips got too big or something. I definitely don't play music the way you do.
Haha. It's never too late to dive back in. It's there for you.
Yeah, I get that from watching you on film. You guys just are in immersed in the music, and it makes me wonder what you'd rather be doing instead of this interview right now. I saw you were working on the Snoop Dogg record, but I didn't know if you were in New York or L.A.
I'm in L.A. I don't know what Adrian has today, but I have my own schedule and I'm happy to be speaking with you. Speaking with you is an extension to connecting with people out there in Florida, so I am happy to be doing the thing.
This record is opulent, regal — do you ever get pissed when you see some dude in raggedy pants and a t-shirt at the show?
Not at all, nah. Ha, I don't discriminate on people like that. You don't listen with the clothes you put on, you listen with your ears and your heart.
Your first instrument was a Fisher-Price turntable, which turns into other things down the road, starts you on a path — do you have any kids? If so what instruments do they get?
Haha. I don't have any children, but I have a nephew that's deeply into music. Carrying on the uncle tradition — my uncle was a DJ, and a bass player and tuba player — he's 12 years older than me, he's my mother's older brother. I used to follow him around. He taught me how to DJ when I was eight years old. Admiring him, his journey and his path as a musician; he had drum machines, computer samplers — the early Tribe Called Quest demos were made at my uncle's place.
For me, with my nephew, since he has an interest in music, I try to help him out, give him information, pointers — he's also on his own journey, and the music that he makes is way different than the music than what I make. I've given him saxophones, keyboards, computers — things to aid his own musical journey.
It wasn’t surprised to see this Midnight Hour record show up in my Spotify top albums, but it made me think about artist revenue from streaming. You guys took a longview and record your own music, own publishing, etc. — does it help in this day in age? How can you tell?
That's a good question. I think, because of the way music is distributed and consumed, it's still, I guess, people are still trying to figure it out. With the major labels partnering up, or being co-owners of applications or mediums like Spotify or some the others, there is an advantage, I think, for certain artists. Even for independent artists, I guess, there is an opportunity to have you voice heard and have a space on the retail floor if you want to compare it to old-school record store — something like a Tower Records or Sam Goody, whatever it was, even Best Buy. It gives the independent artist a position, but in terms of success or finances, there's obviously a huge battle in congress where we're trying to get more of the income share.
What we're doing with Linear Labs, independently supporting The Midnight Hour, is it working out? If you're looking at the financials, I would say "no." Haha. We travel with a huge ensemble, and we record with, like, an 18 to 30 piece orchestra. That's expensive to do.
On tape.
Yeah, exactly. So Adrian and I, with our partner Andrew Lojero are subsidizing this venture. We're not seeing a return from that perspective, like a windfall of money. Our streaming numbers are not, like, "Oh my god!," mind-blowing. We're making en routes, and that's part of the journey. That's why we're touring and committed to bringing our ensemble instead of just doing a straight, four-piece rhythm section. It's about exposing people to get the whole feeling of what we put into that record and bring it to a live setting. So, maybe right now, we're not seeing that windfall or the financial black side on the ledger, but in terms of meeting people and turning people on to something that's really beautiful and special, I think there's a currency there. For us that's what we're banking on — showing people good music and showing other artists out there that you don't necessarily have to chase the mold, which ultimately makes the art unfulfilling. The art that's fulfilling, that lasts the sands of time, is something that's really sincere and vulnerable, so that's what we're offering.
Yes, I've seen the KCRW and Tiny Desk set up on videos, but I do like the Tiny Desk one with Angela Munoz. The story of how she joined was meaningful. Will you share the setup you'll bring to Florida?
We change it up, especially in the age of everything being recorded. It's so easy to just sit at home and tap in and try and get some mystique in what you find. You can't help it. It's our nature and culture right now to be like, "Alright, I've seen that clip on Instagram." There's not that "wow" that happens, so we like to switch things up. I know who's coming on the Florida leg, but I'm not gonna say. We want people to come and just be a part of whatever happens.
As far as the recording thing, I think I disagree with you, and I think what you meant was that people see it and they don't want to come out, but the second you show up to a concert, everything change. Literally, the chemical makeup of the air changes between the PA and the audience is being altered by sound…
Absolutely. What I meant by that statement was that the surprise is out of the bag. You've already seen that. Not to say that it's unfulfilling to be there after watching it online, but the video experience doesn't allow you to let in unfold in front of your eyes. It's like having a child. I don't have children, and I look forward to it, but you can't imagine. Things happening before your eyes for the first time. I've seen a lot of shows by people that I love. I've never seen video performances of them and been like, "Oh my god." Had I seen some of the videos of things happening onstage and offstage, then it wouldn't have been like this fresh, happening in front of my eyes moment. It's like inception, it's already been planted. The experience that could've been is altered. That's what I meant.
So when you're playing this record onstage alongside people you've collaborated with for so many hours, what kinds of thoughts are running through your head? Does the record change the way you feel every night? What are you thinking about, or are you just thinking, "Let's not fuck up" while you're there?
Not "let's," I'm thinking don't let “me” fuck up. There's a part of that, but there's also the listening of what everyone is doing. We have a structure, a foundation of the song as it's been recorded, but our drummer, he's phenomenal, and he'll play something differently. He and I, no different than most bass players and drummers in a live setting, there's a chemistry that should happen, but him and I have a crazy lock going. I listen to him.
I'm very rhythmic. Even with my scratches. I don't believe in overdoing anything. I think there's a place; you give it a taste and you keep it moving. It's like food, you put too much salt on it and nobody wants to eat it. You don't through enough and there's something you're looking for. I feel the same way with rhythm, and scratching and bass playing. There's a lot that happens that Adrian does, and I'm listening to him and being like, "Oh, shoot, you're doing that? Word, let me just change my rhythm."
I'll listen to what the string players are playing and what the horn players are playing, and for a moment I forget I'm playing bass. I'm just listening to them, wishing that I could just turn around and watch them because what's unfolding is so beautiful to me.
I used to this, even with Tribe, when Q-Tip and Phife would perform. I'm the music guy, controlling the music, and I'm just so far gone and lost in the experience of what they're doing, so I'll forget that, "Ali, you know this part we rehearsed is over, and you've got to get the next thing going?" I get lost. I look at the audience, and I see the looks on people's faces, and I'll often wonder — especially with The Midnight Hour since it's different from what I've done with Tribe and Lucy Pearl — what are people thinking? It's so chill, it's a different thing. There are a lot of instrumentals, so there are no words for the audience to sing along, so there's a limitation of crowd participation, it's different from what I'm used to feeling in a live setting. From a hip-hop perspective, this is not that. But then again, there are elements of hip-hop there. I think about a lot of different things, and it all leads back to, "Please, do not fuck up."
Well, going back to not fucking up, when you have lyrics that the audience knows and raps along to, there are times you miss one, but it's all kind of fun and jovial. I'm making this assumption about the band, since I feel you’re on this mission to elevate the black composer and bring it out of a niche thing, but do you think there’s a different kind of pressure for you onstage being an instrumental band?
I don't feel pressure at all. At this point I've been making music for 29 years, so I'm very comfortable in knowing my place and what I do. I'm confident in what I do and how I live my life. There's nothing in that regard. It's actually empowering because my journey is, I think, special and important. I think it's intriguing to some people, it's interesting, and I think it's inspiring, so the mission is just to offer just that. Adrian's musical journey is very intriguing, it's inspiring. The two of us together, when we stand, not just on the stage, but the music as it's been recorded, be it The Midnight Hour or our contributions to Luke Cage — we have hip-hop origins, people who have sampled music, that's the foundation, but guess what, there's so much more that we can do. There's more to achieve and attain.
When you think of the greats, Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, when you think of the Quincy Joneses — from the hip-hop genre, we don't really have that many. RZA is doing it. I think Questlove worked on a movie, Pharrell has worked on one. In terms of notable people, there aren't that many. Even with those guys, they've all done something that's a little different. Adrian and I, what we do is way different than that.
So the mission is to just expose people to something that's elegant, something that's intellectual, something that's rich. Something that has the foundation of the hardships and struggles of other jazz musicians who were unable to sit in certain places and eat food, but then they can go entertain people. To have that kind of a freedom, where being onstage is the only place to be free to let it all out. We come from all that, and we want to embody that in our music and in our mission, and in delivering that on a recording or in the live setting.
There's a lot of layers to it, but more than that we just want people to just have fun and enjoy it. All this stuff we're talking about is very serious, but just let your hair down and let yourself be gone in what you're hearing and what you're seeing in the moment onstage. So all of that.
Someone has probably asked you this, but I haven't seen it on record, but real quick, could you tell us whether or not there is any more Luke Cage music left?
Haha. We have a little bit, and we will be bringing vinyl. We roll with vinyl.
Well, any new Luke Cage music, from that potential season three that got nixed?
You know what, we have music from the first and second season, but I don't know if they've opened it up to the public or not. We certainly cannot do that because we don't have authorization from Marvel to do that. It would be nice if they do that one day, but right now, nah, nothing that we can play to people.
You’ve said that you find the most interesting stuff from a record in the more silent parts. That took you awhile to figure out, but do you remember that light bulb moment and how it changed your life and then led to learning an instrument?
I really don't remember, that was so long ago, but sometimes when you're sampling — at least what led me to that discovery is when you're looking for that break or bass line, Rhodes or a piano, chords on top of a guitar, or that naked drum break, something like that — at some point I started listening to the other areas of silence. The trail-off off of a bass line or just the tail end of something that was played. There's a sound, from a sampling perspective, it could be turned into notes or it can be turned into a rhythm that then turns into a composition. It's an "ah-ha" moment; there's so much wealth in it because then you find, again, this is coming from a sampling-minded person, but you discover that there is so much value. It's a diamond, you always think that the break beat is the diamond of the song, but nah, the diamond of the song can be the whole aspect of it — it just depends on your perspective in the moment.
I know last time Adrian came through, they were looking for a gym to play basketball. Is that something you guys still do?
Haha. Nah, he hasn't played ball on the road to address that question. But we definitely do get the workout in the hotel.
Thanks for your time and your contributions to music in general.
Thank you, I appreciate that, Ray. Thank you for your time. We are looking forward to coming there. I don't know how long it's been since I played there. I do know that The Midnight Hour is different from anything that I have done in the past, so I am looking forward to sharing it with the people there.
For sure. I think your fans understand that. I think, honestly, your fans are looking for the best way to support you as an artist. That's kind of why I asked the streaming question. Is it buying merch? Is it buying records? It it donating Kickstarters? How can fans be better, you know? I think your fans are looking for that answer as well.
I think the real answer to that is to just buy the physicals. Streaming, again, there are a lot of people who have monthly memberships on streaming, so there's ownership of music, but not a real ownership of music. It's an acceptance; "I have my monthly service paid for, and I can listen to any song I want, and I can listen to it infinitely," and that's cool, it's accepted, but that doesn't really help the people who actually put hours into this music.
We go to work, but we don't get paid for it, and when it comes to just consuming music — especially if you're a fan, if you don't give a damn then this is not gonna matter to you — for the people who are actual fans, streaming is one thing, but streaming numbers don't really help us. What helps us is people actually buying the physical copy of it, and that's all I can say, it's really that simple. I guess it takes it back to what would be the antiquated way of listening to music, but for independent artists out there, record sales are everything.
Touring, when it comes to The Midnight Hour, yes, our names are larger, but really we're a little group. We haven't made that impact where our names are on the tips of everyone's mouths, so that means we're not selling out 5,000-seat venues where, from an economic standpoint, we can be like, "We'll we're making money from the live performances." We're not. Again, we're carrying 10-pieces out there, our guarantees are not high, so for us everything counts. That's the answer. Everything counts. The merch counts, the physical sales of our album helps greatly. Obviously, coming to the live performance, that helps. That's the message I think I can give to the fans, if that's what you're asking.
Yeah, for sure, sometimes that's not always clear. Looking forward to closing out the year with you.
Yeah, looking forward to rocking with Tampa. Like I said, I can't remember the last time, so yeah.
CL spoke with Adrian Younge a few days later. Our chat is below.
Adrian, this record is opulent, regal — do you ever get pissed when you see some dude in raggedy pants and a t-shirt at the show?
To me, I want people to represent themselves however they represent themselves. I'm not any better if I wear more expensive clothes. We represent who we are, and we want people to represent who they are. It doesn't bother me.
Adrian, Christian Scott aTunde Adjuah just got nominated for a Grammy — is that a goal for you guys are far as bringing more representation to the world of scoring and black composers?
It's interesting. I don't look at the Grammys as real.
Yes, I think I might know what you mean. There's a major problem.
So I don't look at them as real, so the question about whether it's great to see someone get the recognition in something that I feel is a little more fabricated, I actually do think it's good. Even though I don't view it as "real," it's good. It's good for people to get recognition regardless of what's "real" or not. A Tribe Called Quest never got a Grammy, Snoop never got a Grammy. Curtis Mayfield didn't get a Grammy for Superfly. You get the point, I could go on and on. The point is that it's always great that the people doing good work get recognized for that good work.
How hard is it to not get lumped into something that’s a niche instead of a movement? What you're doing feels bigger than a "niche" genre or strain of music. Is it frustrating to get lumped in there?
You gotta look at it like this, the Top 40 world does not exist to me. To me, if you're not doing "Top 40," you're in some sort of niche. That's just what it is, that's how people perceive it. There's people out there that look at Top 40 music as the only kind of music that matters, and I look at Top 40 music as music that I don't really care about. And that's not to say there's not great Top 40 music, there is, but the point is that if you're trying to get into the Top 40 game and stay there, you're going to make a bunch of compromises to your craft for people who have simple minds. That being said, we create music that we just love. If someone puts it in a niche or not, I mean David Axelrod is in a niche. Curtis Mayfield is in a niche. Wu-Tang is in a niche. I'm cool with that. It doesn't bother me.
Ali wouldn't tell me what the lineup looked like for this show coming to Florida, and I am assuming that I will get the same response from you: Show up and be surprised, let the show hit you when you get there.
Yeah, and we never know who's gonna show up. It varies everywhere we go based on the fact that we're travelling with 10-pieces. If someone is in the area and they can make it, then we pick them up. If someone's not, then they're not. We know some places, but we don't always know. So yeah, I'll take the same.
You've talked at length about how you met Ali, but do you remember the first piece of Tribe music that you heard which made you want to grab a sample or create a new melody?
Well, I got into Ali and Tribe Called Quest with their first album People's Instinctive Travels with "Bonita Applebum" and "I Left My Wallet In El Segundo," all that good stuff, so every since that time, I always wanted their music and likedthe music that they sampled because it represented a style of jazz and soul that I really admired. I would say I had a great affinity for Ali and his work starting with his first album in the '80s.
You’ve been working together since 2013 — that’s half a decade, but does the time together, the gelling that’s happened, make you want to stay in this band forever and see where you're at 10 or 15 years down the road?
Absolutely. It's just beginning.
Could you talk about Angela Munoz? I think some people would assume that artists don't read the Instagram messages, but she messaged you, and you put her in the band. What was it about her? For a lot of people, being in a band like yours is a dream — how did it happen for her?
Basically, when she sent her message to me, and when I looked at her Instagram, I looked at the stuff she was doing, she was doing something sophisticated. She was being cultivated as an artist. She wasn't just doing what other people are doing. She had a unique voice, and a unique perspective as far as her posting. So, like, she'd post stuff about Mad Lib, she'd post stuff about Wu-Tang, you know what I'm saying? She posted about Marvin Gaye. She had taste at a young age.
It was very interesting to see that somebody, at the time, was 16 years old, knows about cool stuff that was made before she was born. My favorite music was made before I was born, so it shows that she understood that, and she just happened to be talented. When we met, I was like, "You're pretty cool," I liked her as a person, and then we started to work. It's as simple as that. You don't find a young person that advanced, usually. That's the difference.
This article appears in Dec 27, 2018 – Jan 3, 2019.