Benjamin Booker has a dream: It’s to one day play the Tampa Theatre. He doesn’t care if he’s headlining or playing support, but it’s admittedly tough for him to make it back down to the Bay area where he spent some of his childhood and graduated high school (Hillsborough High, Class of ‘07).
[Front page photo via Nicole Kibert/elawgrrl.com]
“It’s hard to do tours through Florida. I always try and ask, but I always get back, ‘Ooof, that’s gonna be rough,’” Booker, 28, told CL during our chat.
His latest album, Witness, was released in June 2017, and got glowing reviews worldwide. Its blend of psych-rock, gospel, punk, R&B, and old Nigerian rock and roll led tastemaking WBEZ radio show “Sound Opinions” to rate it a double “Buy It,” with the show’s hosts adding that they may have liked Witness better than the Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band had the albums been released on the same exact day. Unreal.
“So I don’t know. I mean my dream is to play the Tampa Theatre. That’s my No. 1. I think I may have to wait a few years, so we’ll see,” Booker added.
For now, the Tampa son and UF alum will have to settle for his upcoming appearances at Coachella and another Sunshine State dream he’ll be fulfilling when he headlines Day 2 of Gainesville’s forward-thinking music and activism festival, Changeville, on February 9.
“My time there was life-changing, could totally live there again. [I’m doing Changeville] because it is for a great cause, but also because if you live there for years, playing at Bo Diddley is like playing the Madison Square Garden of Gainesville,” Booker said.
“In that small town it was such a big deal. I remember going there for New Year’s Eve, and having a kiss in Bo Diddley Plaza while listening to a band. So I thought it would be really fun to go back to the old college town, and be on the other side.”
And while he now calls the other side of the country home, Booker — who has lived in the Los Angeles neighborhood of Echo Park for the last year and a half — still remembers the support he got here in Tampa Bay.
“I was lucky that I started in a small town like New Orleans and then went to Tampa,” he said, adding that he and his old bandmates — drummer Max Norton and, later, bassist Alex Spoto — tried to play as much as they could. “I don’t think that we would’ve felt confident enough to go out and do it if people weren’t so helpful to us in Florida, you know. I have nothing bad to say about that time. It was the best, it was really the most fun times.”
Read the rest of our reminiscing and discussion of future plans, and get more details on the Gainesville show, below.
Hey, what's up.
Hey Ben, it's Ray.
Hey man, how's it going.
Is right now an alright time to talk?
Yeah.
Pacific time these days. You still sleeping at this time, I know you just came off of a European tour.
Ah, no, but I've been resting up. You know, taking it easy.
And what part of L.A. are you living in?
Echo Park. It's near downtown.
Right on, do you have a dog yet?
No, you can't have a dog if you're touring.
Yeah, I figured that. I read that — at least at the time of the particular interview — that your girlfriend was very into touring as well.
Yeah.
Is that still the same situation?
Yeah, so no pets.
And how was that Europe tour. It was short, however, it seemed pretty eventful. There was tons of U.K. press, and it seems like the shows went really well.
Yeah, that shows were really great. It was definitely, there wasn't one day off on the tour. It was only a few weeks, but it was pretty intense. We got to do a lot of different places. There's always some unexpected surprises, you know. Towns are good. We played a Paris show that was probably the best show that I've ever played, so.
Did you say Paris?
Yeah.
Was it the new thing that La Blogotheque is doing?
No, we played a real show at a venue in Paris, and that show was really great.
Is that the next stop in the "Where does Benjamin Booker live" story?
Maybe. We were talking about it.
How long have you lived in Echo Park now?
Uh, maybe a year-and-a-half, maybe under a year-and-a-half.
Have you had time to adjust to the L.A. lifestyle? Have you found a routine for yourself there? I've read that you've kind of gotten into some better habits.
Yeah, I grew up in Florida, so I don't think it's that much of an adjustment to move to L.A.
Climate-wise, definitely.
Climate-wise, but also looks-wise. It's not like a big city. I mean, it is a big city, but it doesn't ever feel like a big city. There's a lot of neighborhoods where you could be driving around Tampa, you know. So it was pretty easy compared to moving somewhere like New York.
You have a favorite walk that you do, or a coffee shop that you go to — have you fallen into any kind of routines around Echo Park?
Oh yeah. Definitely. I mean I was here for a long time before the album came out, so I've got some things down. I'm right next to the Dodger stadium, so there's a nice park that I walk by around there, and there's a ton of good coffee shops near my house.
Sweet, man. So as far as talking to the press goes, you've pretty much been on every site. Definitely all the big ones. Rolling Stone, Billboard, and I feel like, right out of the gate you explained Witness pretty well, and put a good story down and a rubric. Is there anything that the record has taught you on the road that you didn't know before hitting the road. I know the record was very, um, therapeutic in a way. You were addressing a lot of personal things in the context of the world at large, so is there anything that you've learned by playing the songs since the record has been released?
Yeah, sure. I think that when you write songs, I think you kinda know what's happening, and you kind of have a plan, but I think that when you play songs you find out about something that you made, even, so I think singing them every night there are definitely lines that hit you in different ways. Different times that you play them, and they feel different on one night or they mean something different to you, so definitely. That happens a bunch after we've played the songs for months and months. That's why it doesn't really, I mean people complain about it getting old, and I guess after a couple of years it can get old playing songs, but for a long time, it takes a while to let everything sit in and just think about what you made.
And how do you feel. I mean you just had this great exercise, and went through a lot of things. You went to Mexico, and you kind of laid out those bullet points. How do you feel about the growth that you've been able to achieve in the context of this record, do you feel like a much better person? Like even better than the person that you were when you were very young, very insecure, things like that. How are you feeling?
I feel good. I mean everybody is growing. I feel good about it. I still have a lot of things to figure out, but I feel good. Yeah. I don't know. Life is not bad.
What are some of those things that you're trying to figure out? I like the Tavis Smiley interview you did. For one because it looks like you were almost in a suit, and you kind of talked to him about facing demons head on, working on things in your personal life — are those the bullet points or are they some bigger things that you are working on?
Yeah, all of that, you know. I mean, we don't need to get into it.
OK, OK. I didn't know, I mean it's kind of out there on the record, but I just didn't know if it was something that you were talking about. You're reading a lot of self-help books, and things like that, addressing the things in your life that you wrote Witness about.
Yeah. It's out there, but imagine if you had to talk about the problems in your life everyday with different people.
I 100-percent get that, so going back to a sonic question. Witness is obviously your second full-length, but after you take it in a few times, and get the scope of it, it feels a little like a debut, at least as far as the sound goes. What changed between Benjamin Booker and Witness as far as being able to synthesize all these influences. I mean, there's psych-rock, gospel, some punk, old Nigerian rock and roll, Sly Stone touches. What changed in you as a musician for you as far as being able to get all that stuff on a record?
I think that you just do, for me, the stuff that you are interested in doing, and that's what I focus on, so I think it was just things I was listening to at the time, and the people that I was working with. I worked with a different producer this time, also, which had a big difference on the way that the record sounded. That's what's fun. The next time that I make a record, which I am working on now. I don't think it'll sound anything like this one. Hopefully they'll all be like debuts, you know.
Yeah, it's an incredible journey that you've been on, especially for us in Tampa watching you, and seeing it go. I mean at least for us, locally, I was like, man, if Witness takes off then Benjamin Booker is probably gonna be a thing for a really long time, and it did take off, so congrats on that.
Thanks, I appreciate it. It is rough. It's easy to make a first record, but the second one is kind of difficult, but I'm glad that it's been received well. We're getting to play festivals and things next year. We get to tour again. I took a lot of time off after the first one because I wanted to spend time to put something out that I was proud of and not just try to, you know, capitalize on the attention immediately, which is risky but I think it was a good move. I'm happy with the album, and because it was well-received I'll get to make another one, hopefully.
Yeah, it seems like you've been navigating the label thing really cool. It was neat to hear you talk about Sam (Cohen, producer), and what he did for the record and that the fact that you're working on a record and that you don't know if you're gonna work with Sam again. How long do you think you can tour behind Witness? What's the plan, and are you itching to flesh new songs out, or will you take your time again? Do you even know?
For the new songs that I have?
Yeah.
Well, next year. We're trying to figure out the schedule now. We're playing some big festivals next year.
Can you tell me those big festivals?
No, I can't, haha. [It was later announced that Booker, in addition to his appearance at Gainesville's Changeville fest, would be playing both weekends of Coachella in Indio, California.]
We've been talking about doing shows and stuff. We did the entire U.S. For me, I guess, I would rather go back to working on another album then to just keep hitting the road again. So I think we're just gonna play some festivals and then I can start working on this album.
So on to this touring thing. You have gone on big tours. Part of your post-high school Florida story has ties to both Tampa and Gainesville. You were at a pizza shop in Gainesville when Tampa music magazine REAX called you about your internship, and in a lot of ways that internship and the people you met kind of cemented these ideas you had in your head and allowed you to kind of live a life that, maybe, you weren't gonna live at the time, especially in Tampa. I don't think we've seen you in Tampa since Coral Skies or even maybe Hogan's Beach, which I think were in the same year. How hard is it to get down here for you? Do you think we'll see you soon here in Tampa?
Yeah, it's been a long time. I don't know. I guess, one of the things that's good about Florida, that I think about all the time, and one of the reasons why I think I get to play music is that, uh, the scene there is just very local. You know what I mean? It's a lot of local band, like when I was growing up you only saw bands from town, and people playing, and you didn't need to go to other shows, but now that I'm playing music I'm realizing how hard it makes it for people to come from other places to Tampa.
It's a long way down.
Yeah, it's a long way down, but it's also, when you have your own thing going, and people are happy with the music in town it's hard to, uh, do tours through Florida, I don't know. It's been difficult. I'm hoping, I always try and ask, but I always get back, "Ooof, that's gonna be rough," so I don't know. I mean my dream is to play the Tampa Theatre. That's my No. 1. I think I may have to wait a few years, so we'll see.
Well, the way the records are going, that could change.
Yeah, maybe we can get me and some other Tampa bands together.
That would be rad. Would you want to headline the Tampa Theatre or would you be OK with coming through as support on a bill.
Oh, I wouldn't mind to play it with other people.
Real quick, can we just put an end to the ATO signing story? Like can we confirm that it was 2013 after the Nine Bullets show.
It was. Nine Bullets, oh man, I haven't seen that man in forever. What a cool guy.
Yeah, Bryan is in Nashville now, so he moved up there. So you are playing in Gainesville. You are headlining Changevillle, a festival that Charles Bradley and your friends Hurray for the Riff Raff once did. You went to school at UF and had the Grow Radio show, Ben and Lee. How's it feel to go back there, especially for this cause that is close to your heart. It's probably a good feeling, but I know you also, you know, living in Gainesville, and experiencing, some, I don't know what to call it, I guess it is some of the exclusiveness of the punk scene, which you thought would be more inclusive, was a big reason you moved away. So what's it like to go back there?
I mean, I loved my time in Gainesville. It was life-changing. I think it's an amazing place, and I could totally live there again, but it was just, one of the reasons I did this is because it is for a great cause, but also just, if you live in Gainesville for years, like playing at Bo Diddley is like playing the Madison Square Garden of Gainesville. In that small town it was such a big deal, you know. I remember going there for New Year's Eve, and having a New Year's Eve Kiss in Bo Diddley Plaza on New Year's listening to a band. So I thought it would be really fun to go back to the old college town, and get to do that, but to be on the other side.
Sweet.
Yeah, I'm really excited.
Yeah, I think people are super excited to see you. I wanted to ask you because you looked really good on Tiny Desk. Hey, so you look pretty good in the Tiny Desk video — I know you’re taking better care of yourself these days, but Tiny Desk is an early morning what’s your secret?
Oh, yeah. It's pretty brutal. We spent a lot of time trying to figure out routing for that, and we ended up doing it when we played at 9:30 Club, when we played a show in D.C., and that's why I didn't do it on the last record. It's just hard to get an extra day in town to do Tiny Desk. But it's pretty rough. It's early in the morning, and nobody sounds their best. And Bob Boilen is great. He's a really nice guy — he made us some banana bread.
He's my favorite Instagram live person lately.
It's a cool show.
And you said people didn't sound their best, but I felt like Saundra Williams sounded really great there.
Saundra always sounds good. I didn't realize, because I met her through Sam, the producer in New York, I didn't realize that she had sang with Daptone.
Yes.
For years she sang with Sharon Jones. So yeah, when she was singing at shows people kept yelling out her name, and she got huge chants from the crowd, and I was like, "Damn Saundra you're killing it!"
Yeah, she kills it. She's like Daptone Records royalty for sure. Does she tour with you?
No, she plays with us usually when we play in the Northeast, New York, those kids of places. We've been working with different singers, so when we go to London we'll have a singer there, or on the West Coast we have a singer out here, too, so for the bigger cities and stuff we've been breaking out some backup singers.
So the touring line up is Mikki Itzigsohn, Sam Hirschfelder, Matthew Zuk?
Yup, that is the group.
Right on. And to watch bands progress. Your band has changed over the years, especially for us since we've been watching you since Booker & Norton, and lineups shedding skins is not out of the ordinary, but they can be tough decisions to make. Could you talk about the reasoning behind changes your recording and touring bands have gone through and how hard it was for you when these people are your friends and you come up with them? How hard is that? I mean, in a way it might be easy because you have to do these things to make the record that you want, but I'm sure on a personal level it's tough.
Right. Yeah. I think it just comes down to what kind of record do you want to make, and how seriously you want to take things. Like when we finished up the last album, I was sitting with Alex and Max, and Alex by the end of it was in San Francisco, I was in New Orleans and Max was in Nashville, and I was about to move out to L.A. And I knew that this album was gonna require insane amounts of practicing and getting it together, and I knew the band that was in town. I had some friends in L.A., so I decided to do that instead.
Right on, and I wanted to make sure. You graduated Hillsborough High School in '07, and you were in Mr. Shelburne’s morning classroom club, is that correct.
That's correct, I heard he had a nervous breakdown?
Oh now, I didn't hear anything about that. I hope he's OK.
Yeah, me too. I don't know. It's a crazy story. I looked it up online and his father was a doctor, I remember, and he was apparently on trial for pushing pills on people.
Like a pill farm.
Yeah, yeah. I don't know if it was related to that, but I felt that was about the same time.
Oh man, that's not good.
I know, but maybe it also explains a lot of his behavior.
Yeah, like the toothpicks right?
Yeah, like everything. He sold, he tried to sell candy in school illegally and got shut down.
Haha.
He went on a European trip and was trying to dance with young girls. There was a lot of crazy stuff he did.
Geez. He wouldn't make it in this day and age.
Oh, no way. No chance.
Pretty cool to stumble back into this @reaxmagazine retrospective from the @SubApologist days read this particular issue here: https://t.co/yc8N8MFAQM pic.twitter.com/yveX9KBlKX
— Ray Roa (@rayroa) February 7, 2018
I think I only have about five more minutes with you, so I wanted to ask you about the live show, which has had its fair share of landmark moments in its short history. The broken guitar at Lolla, jumping into the crowd to talk with security escorting a kid out of a 2015 primavera sound set. And I was at the very weird Hogan’s Beach set that I felt like nobody was at, and that was a great set that was weird as well. How do we get there as you’re onstage? I know you've talked about music being transformative and you try and take the audience to a place. How do you end up doing things like breaking guitars at Lolla or jumping into crowds? What's that thought process like?
Well, every show is a new day. It's really, sometimes, you can't predict what's going to happen. Anytime I feel like the show is gonna go well it usually doesn't, and usually when I feel bad it ends up being good. I don't know.
Are you superstitious?
No, haha. Maybe a little bit sometimes. The Lollapalooza thing, I had had that guitar, that was like my first nice guitar that my parents got me when I was 14, and it just wasn't working. I had it as a backup, and when I took it out it was just terrible. People didn't mind, but I knew I couldn't use it playing anything that I was playing. Like I might as well get rid of it now. And the Hogan's Beach show. That show was just…
It was weird.
We were really not into it. I ended up getting banned from Hogan's I think.
Haha. I wasn't gonna ask you about it because I heard something about it.
They stopped doing concerts, I heard, they charged me for a bunch of stuff.
Yeah.
They said that I broke a bunch of things.
That's what I heard, too. And I was like, "That's crazy." I mean, I do remember the backline guy being a little upset some beer getting on an amp.
Yeah, that was bullshit. Apparently I tried to take the Christmas tree from the lobby into my room. I mean, the place, the people who work there are the people that you would imagine would work at a Hulk Hogan restaurant, and they were not being cool.
It's gone.
I don't fuck with people unless they're fucking with me, and then I don't mind ruining their whole restaurant.
Right on. And you said you've kind of wanted to use Witness as kind of a platform to reach people and adopted a certain sense of responsibility. Have you received a lot of feedback on the road as far as people that have been able to kind of improve their life or situation after listening to the record.
Oh yeah, pretty much immediately. I mean the song, but also the essay that I put out. I got a lot of response from friends and stuff about that afterwards. So yeah, I don't know. I'm happy that people could relate to it, I guess. That was the biggest feedback that I got because it wasn't just black people.
No.
A couple of my friends were people who were Mexican and just talking about how it feels to be in Mexico and have problems there. Because, you know, there's white Mexicans and brown Mexicans. There's a big difference there when you go visit. So I think a lot of people could relate to the things that I was saying.
BEN HOT
Benjamin Booker named in Rolling Stone’s “Hot List,” announces December 5 show at Hogan’s Beach
There’s a quote from your Interview magazine article where you talk about it being hard to go back to Florida because of your rough childhood and the fact that the region just doesn’t really bring anything to your songwriting. Less rich experiences, I guess. You mentioned not really wanting to come back here because of that, which I can understand, but there was a community that really embraced you when you and Max started to play out, right? Because I think that may have gotten lost in the Interview article.
Oh yeah. People, I think that if I started in L.A. or something, then I wouldn't have been able to do it. I was lucky that I started in a small town like New Orleans and then went to Tampa for, I think we were there for six months.
It was quick.
And that's what's so incredible. We really tried our best to play as much as we could in town and it was just a beautiful thing to see the support from the community and have people come out to shows. I mean, I don't think that we would've felt confident enough to go out and do it if people weren't so helpful to us in Florida, you know. I have nothing bad to say about that time. It was the best, it was really the most fun times. Of all the touring I've done, it was a really great time.
Cool man, is there anything you want to say to Gainesville or Tampa as you head down. Anything to Fiona Apple, maybe hope she shows up on a record also.
Fiona Apple?
I read somewhere that she was an artist that you really liked, and the Mavis thing blows my mind that you called her like a Grandma in a really endearing way. Like, "Man he's so close with Mavis Staples, this is nuts." Like who's next? Seems like you could collaborate with a lot of people at this point.
No, no. I definitely can't. I mean I hope that the people in Florida are enjoying the holidays and that people can come up from Tampa, hopefully, to this Gainesville festival. I think it's going to be really cool and some other people playing. There's a Rough Trade artist, Princess Nokia, and some other people, so it should be fun. I'm gonna be hanging and having a good time, so come say "Hey." I can't wait to get back. I am gonna get some Leo's pizza and some Maude's coffee, hit up the record stores.
Some Flaco's?
Oh my god, Flaco's. I'm just gonna eat the whole time. Haha.
You're gonna go back to plump Ben. You never got big, but you got healthy in a different way.
Haha.
Well thanks for your time. Have a safe trip.
Alright. Thank you.
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This article appears in Feb 8-15, 2018.